Child Mood Disorders?

Discussion in 'Mental Wellbeing' started by Penguin-Goon, Jul 24, 2011.

  1. Penguin-Goon

    Penguin-Goon New Member

    Ok this might end up being kinda long, so my apologies. some background on kaydee, she is 3 1/2 will be 4 in jan, and im starting to wonder if she may have some sort of mood disorder. she has some strange quirks that ive been trying my best just to deal with but now im wondering if she got some sort of a diagnosis and we could find some sort of therapy for her it may help, or at least i could learn the correct ways to cope and help her.

    She does not sleep well, and wakes often. she has trouble going to sleep at all and usually will not go to sleep until she passes out from sheer exhaustion. she does not take daytime naps regularly, but will sometimes on occasion pass out while playing or watching tv (and then be up all night [​IMG] ). when she does finally lay down to go to sleep she will bang the back of her head repeatedly against the headboard, to the point that if her bed isnt up against the wall, she actually forces it backwards until it is pressing against the wall. shes been doing this for as long as i can remember and used to move her crib around the room when she was a baby/young toddler by rocking on all fours banging her head into the bars.

    she gets very angry and throws MASSIVE tantrums over the smallest reasons, if she doesnt get her way on the smallest issues. when she does this, she screams about how no one is her friend and she doesnt like anyone and will shut herself in her room and bang her head against the headboard or wall. nothing i do stops this and if i interfere it usually gets her more upset, to the point that she will scream, hit, throw things. if i leave her alone, she will scream and bang her head until she eventually falls asleep.

    she doesnt like to play with other kids her age, and when at a playdate with kids the same age as her, she will make friends with their parents, refer to the parents by name, and as her best friends. if asked if she would like to play with the other children, she gets upset and will usually cling to me. she will play with older kids if given the chance, but they usually arent interested in playing with a 3 year old. When we go to playdates with the same kids over and over again, she remembers all of the parents names and talks about them after we go home, but doesnt know who im talking about if i refer to the other kids by name.

    She is very upset by any changes in her life. she attaches herself to people (adults), and if she doesnt get to see them anymore, she gets VERY upset, crying hysterically and eventually getting angry.

    she cannot handle loud noises unless she has been warned in advance so she can hide and cover her ears. if someone starts a car or motorcycle near her and shes not prepared she will scream, cry, and hide. once a lound motorcycle actually woke her from a sound sleep and she wet the bed (only time shes done that!) and was hysterical!

    she is very manipulative for her age, and will back talk and actually come up with a way around punishment if given one, such as if the TV gets turned off for bad behavior she will turn it back on or plug it back in unless it is actually removed from the room. or if i say she cannot have something she will purposely wait for me to leave the room to ask her dad or grandma the same thing hoping they will give it to her. (is this normal for a 3 year old, i thought backtalk and manipulation were traits of much older children?)

    on the other side, she is a VERY sweet loving little girl, she is very bright for her age, has the vocabulary of a 5 year old, knows all her colors and shapes (including all the weird ones like pentagon and octagon), counts to 15 and can even count down from 5 and is very very imaginative! she tells me stories she makes up in her head, has imaginary friends at times, and goes on imaginary trips that she tells me all about. she is very artistic and loves to draw and paint (scribbles lol), and loves to help bake and cook. shes very sensitive also and takes everything to heart. if someone is yelling she assumes they are yelling at her and asks what she did wrong...

    i think i am going to go to her pediatrician and get a referral for an evaluation from the behavioralist, but i guess i just needed to get all this out and if anyone has any similar experience or input it would definitely be welcome!
  2. GreenTea

    GreenTea Super Moderator Staff Member

    She sounds like a highly sensitive child, for starters. And highly intelligent, too. Most children aren't verbally skilled enough to do much talking back or verbal manipulating at age 3... that Kaydee does this speaks to how advanced she is.

    If she does have any kind of disorder (high sensitivity is not a disorder, although highly sensitive people may feel they're disordered because it puts them out of step with society's expectations), perhaps it's one of the milder autism spectrum disorders (rocking, difficulty relating to other kids her age, precocity, and high sensitivity could be part of that), or perhaps it's a variation of ADHD. Perhaps both. In particular, the sensitivity, imaginativeness, and artistic talent could go with inwardly directed ADD. In fact, she sounds a lot like me at that age... and I have inwardly directed ADD.

    Or you could go with the New Age explanation, which would call her an indigo child. Personally, I have trouble buying into the indigo children idea, but some people feel it's perfect.

    Last I heard, the protocol was that children under 6 couldn't be diagnosed with ADD. I'm not sure if that's still true.
  3. Diana

    Diana Administrator

    Reaching back into the distant past when I was raising kids, I'd say there's not too much out of the ordinary happening. I'd try and get more socializing happening with kids her own age. You say that doesn't appear too succesful at present but persevere. Three is very young and she is just becoming her own person. Lots going on for her.
  4. desertgirl

    desertgirl Active Member

    Hey Goon--though I have no experience what so ever with any of this, I would definitely have Kaydee evaluated. Though all 3 year olds have their moments, to me, it seems like Kaydee's moments are pretty extreme. At the very least, the behaviorist/psychologist (I don't even know who does these types of evaluations) may have advice for you.
  5. Weirdartist

    Weirdartist New Member

    I agree with Desertgirl, it won't hurt to have her evaluated and be offered advice. I would say that unless you think she is a real threat to herself I personally would refuse all medication offered, but it is ultimately your decision. I find with my very intelligent boy a day plan (with symbols/photos or words), egg timers to help him understand how long he needs to do something for (eg 10mins of tidying up toys etc) and finally tasks which are very structured are helpful, it might also be worth trying to teach her to read, once DS could read he occupied himself for up to 20mins at a time looking at books, it might work for the lack of sleep, at least she will have something to do while she is in bed.

    in terms of sleep a good routine and daytime excersize are the only real advice I've ever found, both of which I am sure you do, something like dinner, (pudding?) calm down time (reading a book or relaxing in front of the telly) bath (lavender scented bubble bath can help?) and tuck in bed with a story or some quiet music... daytime exersize between 3 and 5 is supposed to be helpful too, but since she is 3 I suspect she never sits still anywhoo.

    Let us know how things go, and what the psych says, and remember to enjoy all the positives, she sounds like she is incredibly intelligent and loving and sweet, those are wonderful traits to have [​IMG]
  6. Penguin-Goon

    Penguin-Goon New Member

    thank you everyone!! im currently trying to decide weather i should call the dr and go ahead and get the evaluation done (the dr already offered once when we were going through a VERY stressful time with kaydee, and we all decided to wait it out- while things have slightly improved with less stressors in her life, its not by any means "all better") or if i should wait until she starts preschool in the fall and see what happens. on one hand, the preschool would be able to help me determine if this is something we can just work through or if they think she needs extra help, and on the other hand im partially terrified that she will FREAK out at preschool when im not there with her and i should get her evaluated before she starts... honestly i think ill call and make the apt, i might not have much choice on getting in before preschool at all cause i think they have a wait period of a couple months to get in.

  7. desertgirl

    desertgirl Active Member

    I think that's a good idea, I vote for the evaluation before preschool.
  8. Penguin-Goon

    Penguin-Goon New Member

    wow, so i called her dr office to see about getting an apt for a referral, and they got her in TODAY! in half hour. were all dressed and ready to go in about 10 min, ill let yall know what the dr says and if she feels we need the referral. i figure it cant hurt.
  9. TDG

    TDG New Member

    Good luck goon!!! Brendyn is also VERY manipulative and constantly talks back. Hes also very advanced verbally so maybe thats the norm for them. If they have the words they use them? lol. Some days it exhausts me more than anything why I am fighting with are THREE! lol. It sounds to me like some signs of autism..but thats extremely rare in girls(Ive never actually heard of any girl with it). Even if life has gotten back to normal she may still just be having issues from the past stress.
  10. BunnyGirl19

    BunnyGirl19 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I went to school three autistic girls, but they were severe on the scale. I've known far more autistic boys. Interestingly, one autistic girl had four brothers who are also severely autistic. Looking at that, it makes the genetic predisposition look very likely. I knew the family and the father was over 40 when they had them (risk factor) and the mither was on meds for a chronic condition (risk factor if they are any if the newly linked meds KP researchers discovered in their records recently). No other autistic family members at all. I'll havr to track down the meds that double and triple the rates of autism if the mother takes them during pregnancy, especially early pregnancy.

    Okay, back on topic, I was very verbally advanced when I was younger and tended to be manipulative as well. I didn't really talk back, but I tended to be quite rude with the tjings I would often say, as if I were lacking a filter.
  11. Penguin-Goon

    Penguin-Goon New Member

    Well we went to the dr apt, and she agreed an evaluation wont hurt. so we got the referral and i am supposed to hear back tomorrow sometime when/where her next apt will be. By the time i finished with the dr and met with the woman that does the referrals it was after 5 and so she wouldnt be able to reach anyone today, and she said she will have to call and figure out which of the two centers she will be seen at anyways as one does evaluations on younger children and the other one doesnt. so im glad we are making progress, and as bad as it sounds im glad that the dr agreed with me that this wasnt just "extreme 3 year old behavior" and validated my feelings that there may be something more going on.

    i honestly have no expectations, no idea what she could possibly be diagnosed with and am trying not to google and freak myself out or get ideas in my head before we go lol! the only thing that has entered my mind is asbergers syndrome but that seems like a stretch to me, and while im not close minded about the idea, im not trying to self diagnose either.

    TDG, the thing is a lot of these behaviors were clearly present much before any big life stressors were present, and then just escalated from there, so i dont think i can totally blame any of that on the behaviors. i can certainly agree they didnt help one bit and then i feel incredibly guilty for allowing such things to enter her life and upset her in the ways that they have, but i am trying to just learn from the past and keep any further unneeded stress out of her life if its possible. i know i cant protect her from everything but i do know i can at least try to keep it to a minimum.

    another thing i have noticed is she has an EXCEPTIONAL memory, remembering specific things from well over a year and a half ago, which i wouldnt expect a 3 1/2 year old to do. and she remembers things in such detail i know for a fact she cant be making it up and guessing right, and its not just from someone telling her stories from her past, the details come from her own point of view. she remembers every little thing you tell her or promise her, months and months after the fact! it amazes me... she can also watch a show shes interested in once and memorize about the entire thing... and recite parts of the show, word for word. she notices details in things i wouldnt notice if i was paying close attention! she also seems to find comfort in asking the same questions over and over again, even though the answer will be the same, and even if she already KNOWS the answer. this could possibly be just normal 3 year old behavior, but shes very very specific with it. she loves to go through the days of the week with me OVER AND OVER again. she loves the repetitiveness of it and the fact that what comes next never changes...

    we will see where this goes. dont get me wrong, she is my little girl and i LOVE her for who she is, and i just want to know if there is anything i can do to ease some of the things in her life she finds so difficult, to make it easier and more enjoyable for both of us! im not looking for a label or saying she needs to be "fixed" but this thread has been a wonderful way for me to vent so that i can get it all out of my head and just focus on her, and all the wonderful things i love about her!

    thanks everyone for listening and offering input, i really do appreciate it!
  12. TDG

    TDG New Member

    Brendyn is also EXACTLY like that. His memory freaks me out sometimes! lol. So again..that might be normal for verbally smart kids?? Altho I suspect B might have some OCD. (It runs in my family n I also have it). Its bizarre to be "happy" when a Dr thinks somethings wrong, but I totally hate feeling like a crazy paranoid mom too.
  13. Penguin-Goon

    Penguin-Goon New Member

    lol, thanks TDG!!! does B memorize stuff from tv and stories too, not just remember things people tell him?!? that would make what she does seem much more normal lol! she can watch one episode of a show and never watch it again and still tell me who ALL the characters were and what color clothes they were weaing 6 months later.... its kinda freaky LOL! shes very particular about what shows she watches too, but even if a show she doesnt like is on in the background she will remember very specific details about it that i wouldnt notice if i was actually watching! its amazing really lol!
  14. TDG

    TDG New Member

    Yup he is exactly like that. He doesnt even seem to be paying any attention to the tv and yet he remembers everything(including ALL the comertials which he will randomly sing or talk about! IDK if youve seen it but the statefarm one where the guy is talking to his agent at 3am n his wife catchs him n hes like "its jake, from statefarm" well one day randomly B was talkin on a toy cell n I go who are you talkin to n he goes "its jake, from statefarm" I nearly died laughing. lol) He also remembers really tiny details from like 2 years ago. He appears to "read" everything because he recognizes logos from brands, resturants, etc. Hes been this way since he could talk. He recognized "walmom" when he was barely a year old! And not even just our usual walmart...but any walmart wed go to. lol. If only my memory was half that good.... lol
  15. iampam

    iampam Active Member

    Goon, a lot of her symptoms sound like they fall under the broad umbrella of autism spectrum, but even if that's what they end up diagnosing it as, she clearly has avoided most of the worst autistic symptoms. She's obviously extremely intelligent, and while she doesn't seem to bond with kids her age, it's good that at least she is bonding with some people. Maybe part of it could just be that she's so advanced for her age that she has a hard time relating to kids her age.

    She sounds like a kid that will benefit from having a ridiculous amount of structure to her day. I have a feeling that will make her better able to learn how to deal with things she does not like that are out of her control.

    I definitely think getting her evaluated before preschool starts is a good idea. If they think there are skills she can learn that will help her interact better with others (especially her age), it might even be worth waiting 6 months or a year to start preschool when she has better coping skills. If you do start this fall, I bet it would help to visit the preschool in advance (possibly more than once) and spend a lot of time talking it over with her and describing what each day would be like. Maybe the teachers can give you a copy of their daily routine so you can go over it with her in advance.

    I think it's great that you are being proactive about getting this checked out now. I'm sure they'll be able to offer strategies that will make life easier for everyone involved.
  16. Penguin-Goon

    Penguin-Goon New Member

    TDG that actually makes me feel a lot better!! shes JUST like that! we can be driving somewhere and if i take a different road she will freak out telling me im going the wrong way, and im like HOLY CRAP you pay attention and know which roads are which?!? or if we go down the road that eventually leads to walmart after a few turns, she will ask if we are going to walmart. its nuts!

    pam, thank you! like i was saying, i dont think there is anything "wrong" with her, but i do feel like there are some things about her that are different from a typical 3 year old, and mainly i would like help knowing the best ways to handle her "freak out situations" and i guess i want to know how to modify my parenting to help her get the best out of everything offered to her. i also really hope they will be able to help us switch her head banging out for a less violent/painful soothing mechanism. i do think she shows some qualities of being on the spectrum, but i dont honestly know if they are strong enough to diagnose, even as aspurgers, but we will find out. im waiting for the call back from the lady that does the referrals at her dr office. i just really think the evaluation cant hurt at all and might help us out quite a bit honestly. and her dr agreed with me.

    oh and the preschool she will be attending is at our church, so shes VERY familiar with the building and surroundings. the main thing im worried about is that shes VERY excited for school, but even though i explain it to her to cant seem to grasp the fact that i will not be there, and there will be other kids there too. she really seems to think that it will be her, the teacher, and me lol. i explain it to her often, but she freaks out at the idea of going without me, and then just kinda seems to convince herself that it isnt really that way. its confusing. everyone just keeps telling me oh yeah she will cry when you drop her off but she will be fine and get used to it, and while i really hope thats how it will be, im honestly not so sure. i think she is the kid that will scream and cry in the corner till i come back to get her again.

  17. desertgirl

    desertgirl Active Member

    Goon, that's great news about the referral. Let us know how the evaluation goes.
  18. labby06

    labby06 Active Member

    Good luck with everything, Goon! I just had to laugh at the comment about driving because Olivia is the same way! She knows the way to my parents house (which is a half hour drive, btw). When we are about a half mile from their house there is a set of railroad tracks and then a T-intersection. We turn right to go to their house, but sometimes I will turn left to swing by the post office or something. If we go left instead of right she will start pointing out the window yelling! The dog is the same way, lol! Once we go over those tracks she perks up and if we go left instead of right she will start whining and moaning and get all out of sorts!

    I hope you get some answers and some ways to help her cope! Keep us posted!
  19. iampam

    iampam Active Member

    Wow that's crazy that you guys all have kids that are so good with directions. I was clueless until my mid-teens.

    Goon, I think you have a great attitude about everything and I hope the appointment is helpful and able to send you down a path that best helps everyone cope. I know they say head banging is normal for babies, not sure when they are supposed to grow out of it. FWIW my mom says I was a big head banger as a kid, and I came out OK [​IMG]
  20. TDG

    TDG New Member

    lol Its crazy enough they know those kinds of things now, but Bs been that way forever. By the time he was 18 months he knew the way to all the familiar places(3 different grandmas, walmart, church etc). Now he gets POd if we dont tell him(over and over usually) where we are going. He is also a backseat driver n tells us to slow down, speed up, go that way. Lil wierdo! [​IMG]

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