Due October, November, December 2012

Discussion in 'Who's Due When...' started by MyrtleWarbler, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. iampam

    iampam Active Member

    WA it is declining in popularity but still all too common. I personally think it's horrible to electively remove a very important part of the penis. Most American dads are circumcised and don't know what they are missing out on. The head of the penis on a circumcised boy becomes less sensitive over the years (it has to, otherwise wearing clothes would be unbearably uncomfortable). It's like always having sex with a condom on and not knowing what you're missing.

    Eddie is intact. When he is an adult he can choose to be circumcised of he wants. His body, his choice.

    It's funny because female circumcision is big in Egypt, and they use the exact same arguments there that most Americans use for male circumcision.
  2. Weirdartist

    Weirdartist New Member

    [​IMG] I just don't get how operating a child without their consent with no medical need is ok? My friend's 4yr old had to be circumcised recently as his skin was too tight and he had constant infections and problems bless him, and she had to really fight for it because it is so uncommon here. He is much better now fortunately [​IMG] (they had tried all other options for treatment).

    I do worry about the links between male&female circumcision, how 1 is illegal abuse and the other is considered normal by the same people confuses me x
  3. BunnyGirl19

    BunnyGirl19 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Well, in female circumcision they remove the full clitoris and a good amount of the labia for the purpose of "purity" and decreasing sexual pleasure. It would be like cutting off fingers so you can't grab stuff. Circumcision removes a flap of skin and there are legitimate reasons and health benefits involved. There is definitely a difference although many will disagree.

    Also, curcumcision rates overall aren't declining, just the ones done in the hospital at birth (statistics only count the hospital ones). It's becoming more common for it to be done in an outpatient setting now and also Jewish tradition has it done in a ceremony at 8 days of life and it is not counted either. I wish I could remember the link now that explains in detail the pros and cons of curcumcision, statistics, et cetera. It's an actual medical site versus the hysteria of websites that have a sole purpose of being anti-circ and biased and it is much, much easier to find these kinds of sites versus the others. I don't think it is a good educational tool when it just screams at you how awful something is and don't try to present from a more neutral standpoint with facts from both sides.

    I just read in a medical journal/magazine/info thingie at work that worldwide circ rates are increasing in the last few years with the exception of in Scandinavia where it is only in the 40% range. Also, the AAP and WHO are set to start recommending it again versus their current neutral stance (more recent medical studies are the reason for this).

    I am pro circ, others are anti-circ. i feel it's your child your choice on the matter. I just get totally freaked out by the rabid anti-circ nazis out there on a lot of sites that demonize and attack you for not agreeing with them. It gets pretty crazy sometimes. LOL
  4. TDG

    TDG New Member

    I cant speak for the rest of the US, but here in the midwest It is very much the norm.(and we have a low jewish population) Kids get picked on pretty bad for not being circumsized. I also know a few men who had to have it done later in life for health reasons and it was traumatic to say the least, where as babies dont remember and honestly dont seem bothered by it. It upset me to see it looking sore way more than they ever seemed to have ANY pain from it. Altho he obviously doesnt know what it feels like to have a foreskin, DF has more than enough sensation and doesnt feel like hes missed out on anything. Ive never heard one circumsized man complain of lack of feeling. I dont really understand even comparing male vs female circumsision. Have you ever heard of any adult female needing it done for health reasons? I sure havent!
  5. Confused-Hasya

    Confused-Hasya Active Member

    Yikes, I hope I don't have a boy and have to decide this. Rooting for another girl next time just to avoid this - is that a plan? I think so! 'course, for M, I wanted a boy who could avoid menstrual, and all related pain. Not to speak of higher societal pressures which are insane in my culture. So, maybe next time it'll be a boy just to be contrary. LOL.
  6. MyrtleWarbler

    MyrtleWarbler Super Moderator Staff Member

    The circ decision is definitely one plus of having a second girl! Lol! DH and I discussed it just a little. I find some of the anti-circ argument compelling and reasonable, but DH preferred that a son be circ'ed like him. I wasn't sure where we would have ended up, it hasn't mattered!

    My co-worker's son got bad adhesions and had to get some snipping. I'm not sure if he was ultimately circ'ed or just snipped to release the skin. It was tmi as it was and I didn't ask! But I know it was painful and traumatic for him (age 7). Of course he would be even more traumatized to know how much his dad was tellig me about all this! Lol!!

  7. iampam

    iampam Active Member

    There are versions of female circumcision that only remove the clitoral hood, though the more extreme versions are what seems to be more commonly practiced these days.

    Circumcision removes a "flap of skin" (it's not actually a flap of skin) that happens to contain the majority of nerve endings in the penis. Here's something on PubMed to back up the fact that intact men have a more sensitive penis than cut men: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847 and that has been my experience with an intact DH as well.

    It is a very serious thing to remove it without consent. It's not like getting your baby girl's ears pierced (though I personally would not do that).

    For what health benefits?

    Reduced UTIs - There is conflicting data about this. No studies have been controlled for proper care of the intact penis, most of the studies are from the far too recent history when most doctors were encouraging parents (or doing it themselves) to forcibly retract the foreskin, which is known to cause a lot of problems. This page compares some of the various studies (looking at it from an anti-circumcision perspective): http://www.circumstitions.com/Utis.html

    Reduced risk of HIV? - The studies on that are VERY dodgy. They only involve Africans who were circumcised as adults, and were ended early because the results were "so conclusive." Never mind that the circumcised group had less sex because the time frame included the period in which they were healing from the procedure. I guarantee you that this is not going to help HIV rates in Africa, already many many African men believe that they cannot get AIDS if they get circumcised, so they are even more likely to sleep around and less likely to use condoms.
    Most men in America are circumcised. Most men in Europe are not. America has much higher rates of HIV/AIDS than Europe. Even if there is a slightly reduced risk of getting HIV if you remove the foreskin, it's clear that condoms and monogamy are considerably bigger factors. If removing the labia was proven to reduce women's risk of HIV, would we start recommending that?

    Reduced risk of penile cancer? Penile cancer is extremely rare and the latest studies show little to no benefit in circumcision in preventing it. A woman is twice as likely to get cancer of the vulva than a man is to get cancer of the penis.

    As far as intact penises being gross or unhygenic, that's just not true. Vaginas are way grosser [​IMG]

    As far as being teased goes, kids get teased for anything and everything. I will say that nowadays, kids are MUCH less likely to see each other naked than they used to be. With all of the concerns about sexual abuse and lawsuits, showering is not encouraged like it used to be in most schools. Circumcision is an awfully big price to pay to have one less thing for a bully to pick on you about.

    I think it's really important for parents to be fully informed as to the risks and benefits of the procedure, and to know what they are putting their baby through. A baby cannot be probably anesthetized for the procedure, they will absolutely feel pain from it. If the boy chooses it himself at an older age, he will have the benefit of proper anesthesia. I wish every parent would watch a video of the procedure before making a decision.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2013
  8. iampam

    iampam Active Member

    Aren't most Indians intact? Or are you married to a non-Indian?
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2013
  9. Confused-Hasya

    Confused-Hasya Active Member

    Yes, Pam, intact. But I hear that hospitals in North America force it on one?
  10. iampam

    iampam Active Member

    No hospital in America would circumcise without consent these days (though I did hear of a case of there being a mixup and it happened, but that is super rare). I had it in my birth plan that we were not circumcising, and no one ever mentioned it. Our pediatrician was Indian and he certainly never suggested that we do so.

    I think in this part of the country it's more accepted for parents to make non-traditional parenting decisions (vaccination rates are lower in this region as well). I'm sure there are some pediatricians who might suggest it, but with the AAP not currently recommending it, I don't think most would pressure parents too hard on it.

    If you have a boy someday, I wouldn't worry too much about being pressured to circumcise (by medical staff), but I would make sure to find a pediatrician who won't try to retract his foreskin.
  11. Weirdartist

    Weirdartist New Member

    in less controversial news, I FINALLY started leaking colostrum today [​IMG] yay!!! I have stopped taking the antihistamine which is controlling PUPPs-like rash at night (itching like mad, but its bearable with cotton gloves and lots of aloe vera) and it has happened after 3 nights [​IMG] (I found evidence online that antihistamines can reduce milk supplies and wondered if it was why I was leaking much earlier last pregnancy)

    Strange thing to be excited about but I am so chuffed my boobs work again [​IMG]

    PS I say PUPPS-like as GP won't give me a specific dx (she called it 'pregnancy itch') and I feel that if it isn't PUPPS its unfair to sufferers to call it that. It is a pregnancy rash&itch that resemble 'hives' and have no link to liver issues.
  12. BunnyGirl19

    BunnyGirl19 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I can squeeze the tiniest little bit out of mine as of a couple of days ago. Basically just enough to make a tiny little wet/shiny spot on my nipples. I had a horrible supply last time and never really had anything come out until a week or two before I had him. I'm really hoping I do better this time and can also manage to pump out a good amount for when I'm working again.
  13. Confused-Hasya

    Confused-Hasya Active Member

    Hmm, I never leaked before M was born!
  14. BunnyGirl19

    BunnyGirl19 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I heard somewhere that the earlier you leak the better your supply will be. I can't find any data one way or the other to confirm it.
  15. nessa26

    nessa26 New Member

    Whether or not you leak colostrum, or how much you leak has no indication on how much you will produce. It's dependent on your prolactin level after birth, and how often you nurse.

    I was able to express colostrum with both pregnancies around 27 weeks.
  16. MyrtleWarbler

    MyrtleWarbler Super Moderator Staff Member

    I stocked up on a bunch of nursing pads, was all set to leak like crazy before and after like all my friends. Never an issue! It was weird! Early on I wondered f that was a sign of lower supply. Yet I had fine supply, nursed till she was 15 months which included pumping during work, always enough for daycare. I was very very grateful my boobs did exactly what I needed them to but only when I needed it. Lol!!

    I feel so much more pregnant this time, dang!! Can't believe I have four more months of increasing size and discomfort yet to go. Goody.

    In other news... Absolutely positively zero progress on the name front. I am so worried about only finding names that we are only ok with (rather than in love with). If that happens we may narrow it to a short list and let baby "name herself" when she comes. Always liked that idea, but liked Allison's name way more than the couple other ideas we had (really that DH had - I never liked either of them). So with her it was ultimately easy, and the name does suit her great. Still hoping that one name just grabs me... Or, grows on me.

  17. BunnyGirl19

    BunnyGirl19 Super Moderator Staff Member

    That's what I thought too nessa, and probably explains why I couldn't find any data for or against that "theory" when I looked.
  18. TDG

    TDG New Member

    I leaked like crazy with B, and had a huge supply. Never leaked with the others but had more than enough supply. I think they just learned how to do their job. lol.

    MW--I feel exactly the same about names. Wish I had SOMETHING I loved but only have a few that are OK. Might just call it baby. [​IMG]
  19. Confused-Hasya

    Confused-Hasya Active Member

    I am still nursing M. Never leaked, gushed, nor sprayed. Well, just in the first weeks, when I was full and was bending or asleep.
  20. *mel*

    *mel* Super Moderator Staff Member

    I didn't breastfeed but had to wear breast pads for over a month as they leaked all the time! It felt like I was going to have to wear those damn pads for ever!!! lol!

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